Chris is a Tournament Donk, can Dantes turn him into a winning MTT player? Join them as they play several online MTTs live and focus on adjusting from cash games to the MTT world. Dantes helps Chris learn to manage post-flop situations, ICM considerations, and avoiding common tournament mistakes.
Video Description
Dantes and Chris review the late stage play in Dantes' Sunday Million Run. They review the play from 100 players down to the Final table, and discuss how dynamics change deep in a major tournament. They look at stealing and restealing spots, review post-flop hands played by their opponents, and break down cEV decisions.
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Basic User
I am about 15 minutes in and all I can think about is Chris being midway through some 1000NL session and his TeamViewer pops up with 4 tables of 5NL from some random new PS+ member. LOL
You WILL sweat me now I have your TV #'s! LOL
Basic User
On 32 mins, with AK. You say to bet the turn, which is standard.
Lets say you bet turn to 180k, and you did say this is so you can shove river for value. Are you still shoving this river? I dont think you are c/f'ing this?
Basic User
I've really enjoyed this serious guys, good commentary and good questions. It would be nice to get more input from Chris in certain post flop situations. I believe there was a hand early in the video where Dantes explained his reasoning and things were left there.
Basic User
I've really enjoyed this serious guys, good commentary and good questions. It would be nice to get more input from Chris in certain post flop situations. I believe there was a hand early in the video where Dantes explained his reasoning and things were left there.
Plus Team
On 32 mins, with AK. You say to bet the turn, which is standard.
Lets say you bet turn to 180k, and you did say this is so you can shove river for value. Are you still shoving this river? I dont think you are c/f'ing this?
Talking about the bigdog hand, right? probably doubling him up/going broke when he backdoors the flush there
Plus Team
If Chris thinks I was incomplete in my explanation I'm sure he'd say so.
Basic User
Yea thats right Dantes. Overall bigdog played pretty terribly I felt. All the big pots he played I felt he could have got more value.
Plus Team
On 32 mins, with AK. You say to bet the turn, which is standard.
Lets say you bet turn to 180k, and you did say this is so you can shove river for value. Are you still shoving this river? I dont think you are c/f'ing this?
I think we're both in agreement that this river is a pretty clear shove, esp vs a weaker opponent.
In this exact example we woulda got stacked, but his range has so many worse Kx hands (KQ, KJ, KT) that are going to have difficulty folding getting better than 2:1 that I think it's the best play vs his range.
Plus Team
I don't know anything about bigdog's game (hell i didn't even know who he was until this video) but my impression is that he's certainly thinking, but in a couple of spots he sorta leveled himself by taking fps'y lines vs unknowns / weaker players.
I think the KT flush hand in particular was some missed value vs an unknown.
His river call of the minraise was also heroic, but I think the big mistake here is - if you're calling the river b/c you think the guy can spazz / valueraise worse, that's an argument for betting turn.
Plus Team
Hey Jdavis44,
If you can point out the actual hand i'm happy to give my thoughts here.
Basic User
Loving this series guys, hope you do some more like it.
With the two major bigdog hands, i thought he played them both pretty well. in the first one with the K-high flush it's extremely unlikely he gets called by worse when he raises that river; it's really over-repping his hand. obviously he has the best hand the vast majority of the time but that's fairly irrelevant to what worse hands will call a raise on the river.
As for the AK hand in the 3-bet pot vs the fish, betting the turn is just going to make the guy fold all sorts of marginal stuff that we can get value from on the river, or that he will bluff with (or try to "protect") when we check to him. i feel that betting turn makes the villain play perfectly and kind of turns our hand face up. we know the guy has a weak range (it's BB vs BTN and he's awful), so once again, shoveling more money in the pot is over-repping our range.
Basic User
[x] Bigdog ITT^^
No seriously, Im not going to post 3-4 paragraphs of strat, but c'mon, its real simple, hes against fish in both hands. There is so many things they pay off 3 streets with.
Plus Team
With the two major bigdog hands, i thought he played them both pretty well. in the first one with the K-high flush it's extremely unlikely he gets called by worse when he raises that river; it's really over-repping his hand. obviously he has the best hand the vast majority of the time but that's fairly irrelevant to what worse hands will call a raise on the river.
As for the AK hand in the 3-bet pot vs the fish, betting the turn is just going to make the guy fold all sorts of marginal stuff that we can get value from on the river, or that he will bluff with (or try to "protect") when we check to him. i feel that betting turn makes the villain play perfectly and kind of turns our hand face up. we know the guy has a weak range (it's BB vs BTN and he's awful), so once again, shoveling more money in the pot is over-repping our range.
Hey Zed,
I think you make good points on both hands if analyzing these pots versus good opponents.
Fish don't think like we do though - they make bad calls.
In the flush hand, it's basically impossibly for our opponent to show up with a better hand than us. Even though it's hard for him to call a raise on the river with worse, bad players still will. I bet AQ calls here at least 75% of the time when he takes this goofy line.
As for the AK - I disagree. Fish don't fold top pair.
We have TPTK in a 3B pot, and there are plenty of 2nd best hands he can show up with. We can get 3 streets out of worse Kx hands.
I really don't see why betting the turn 'turns our hand face up' - there are many semi-bluffs we might fire again on the turn. And even if it does - as Dantes says several times - it's okay to turn your hand face up if your opponent is playing w/ his eyes closed.
Dude's a fish. He's not range reading.
I think your thought process is good in both hands, but you're out-leveling yourself with your logic. It's something I do a lot as well. Don't assume your opponents are thinking on the same level you are until they prove they're actually competent.
How many times have you bet 3 streets with the nuts and been called down by middle pair, and just say 'lol' and IM the hand to a friend?
Just because he 'shouldn't' call doesn't mean he wont!
Plus Team
Had a hand this weekend that I think illustrates this: Same tourney too! (Sunday Mil)
Hero iso's a limp vs a fish with QJhh, fish calls (we're 120 bbs deep)
Flop Ah 9h 6s, villain chk/calls a 2/3 c-bet
Turn Th, villain chk/calls a 2/3 cbet
River 4s, villain chks, hero bets 3/4 pot, villain c/rai for 1.5x more.
Hero calls, villain has T9.
Basic User
Fair enough Chris, but in the flush hand, the guy was new at table so we don't know if he's good or bad and he didn't really do anything weird in that hand up to the river to suggest he was bad. All we know is that he's new at table and raised utg. In the second hand, yes if we think it's likely he has top pair then we should bet turn, but that's a very small part of his range combinatorially - with a king in our hand and a king on the board it leaves very few combos of KX that the guy can have. Shouldn't we be looking for ways to get value from his whole range rather than just the top (which we'll get value from anyway later in the hand), especially when his range is so wide?
Plus Team
No - we should be looking to maximize value from the top of his range.
It's not a big deal if you don't win much from the pairs like 88 in his range, but it's a disaster if he has a worse Kx hand and we don't win a lot.
When you have a big hand, your goal should be extracting value from the big hands in your opponents range. This is one of the best spots to do it.
Also, I disagree that theyre aren't a ton of Kx hands.
KQ - 8 combos
KJ - 8 combos
Kx suited - ? combos - 4? 8? 12?
Considering pairs JJ-88 are only 6 combos each, i'm much more focused on getting value from those other Kx hands than I am trying to milk a little bit of value from JJ-88
Lastly, even if we do bet turn, there's no guarantee a fish folds those medium pairs on the turn anyway
For more about this - check out Foucault's "Story Time" series, especially episode 1
Basic User
Good points Chris, thanks. I'll check out that series.