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Eddi plays 4 tables of $400 No Limit on Full Tilt and gives you his take on crushing mid stakes games!
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the hand where you open 99 in hijak, co flats, sb squeezes and you fold. what hands do you continue with there? I would get it in with 99 in that situation most of the time, is this bad?
@ 14:50 you open KJo utg and end up having to fold a cbet on KQ4 to an unknown 3bet on the flop. Just wondering--is opening KJo utg standard? Considering you had an unknown or two behind you, is this correct? My oop play is the weakest part of my play. I like jumping into a table with an aggressive dynamic out the gate in higher stakes, but start out TAG and open up my game in lower stakes games (I feel the image has a +EV edge to it at higher-stakes, whereas lower-stakes your image is almost irrelevant). You said at the start of the session you had 30 mins in. Regardless of the new guy at the table that you got involved with, what variables really base your decision on how wide you open your utg open?
Good vid eddi.
the hand where you open 99 in hijak, co flats, sb squeezes and you fold. what hands do you continue with there? I would get it in with 99 in that situation most of the time, is this bad?
I'm no Eddi, but I would think stacking with 99 there is burning $$$. Jamming with 99 would only be ahead/race his bluffs. He said that he didn't have enough information or the image for it to be likely enough for the sb to be 4bet bluffing--an advanced play. So in the event that he's 4betting for value here, you're dominated by even TT+ or racing AK/AQ. I don't have the time to run pokerstove atm, but I feel confident anyone who runs the numbers would find that even with the 10bb Eddi had committed it's -EV against his value range. Since we don't know he's capable of having a 4bet bluffing range YET you have to base your equity against only his value range. Anyone who knows the numbers better than I do: am I right here?
tbh I kinda worded my post wrong, with no reads I wouldnt be 4b/caling most of the time. But I would probably call most of the time, and vs ppl who do squeeze like 5% + I just 4bet/get it in.This may still be burning money though idk.
What is your flatting and 4b'n ranges vs unknowns squeezes eddi?
tbh I kinda worded my post wrong, with no reads I wouldnt be 4b/caling most of the time. But I would probably call most of the time, and vs ppl who do squeeze like 5% + I just 4bet/get it in.This may still be burning money though idk.
What is your flatting and 4b'n ranges vs unknowns squeezes eddi?
isnt calling the worst option?
i mean...there will be overs to your 99 like most of the time...
and even if not...because your are readless you re still playing a guessing game when its checked to you...so you cant really use your position...
eddi...your word is the gospel to me so i feel the need to ask you this question. sorry for it being long...the question is in the next to last par.
ive been thinking a lot about the math behind preflop raising. not only opening but also 3 betting, 4 betting, etc. lets say that every successive raise preflop is going to be at least 3x that of the prior bet. Ex. 2/4 blinds the bets will follow according to this pattern: OPEN for $12, 3-bet for $36, 4-bet $108, etc...
So lets say you want to make a preflop bet as a bluff and your hand when called has little to no equity or its so shitty combined with aggressive villians that the little equity it has will not normally be able to make it to showdown to be realized...
If we assume that we are going to lose the pot when we are called we are risking $12 on an OPEN to win the blinds ($6). Therefore we need the blinds to fold at a greater than 2:1 ratio for this to be immediately profitable. Likewise, following this pattern a 3-bet of $36 into an opened pot totaling (12+4+2= $18) we again are risking $36 to win $18.
I know that when making a re-raise in these cases you are "matching" the prior bet and then raising on top of that so it actually works out that a 3bet of 36 will really be a raise of 24 into a new pot of (12+12+4+2= 30).
So we can either risk $36 to profit $18 (in which sb, bb, and original opener must all fold a combined total of >66% of the time to be profitable)
Or we can just Fold and lose $0 100% of the time.
So, how can you tell if this is really going to be immediately profitable? It seems to me like we cant rely on all these people folding at this high of a rate( >66% )... And it seems like this type of play actually favors a nitty players game in which he/she would only have to continue in the hand 1/3 of the time to show a profit against us.
I'm aggressive by nature and I want to be wrong about this...please tell me where I misunderstand the concepts.
Re 99: There were two 99 hands I think - the one where I open and get squeezed with me being IP - I think getting it in preflop there is the worst option and I think if it is profitable to do that, it's going to be much more profitable to just call. In the other one where I 3bet and get cold 4bet - it's a different story and there if it is profitable to do smth besides folding it's going to be jamming. It's also a different story if you are OOP and there 4betting will usually be more attractive than calling.
Re KJo: The main factor that influences what I open UTG is who's in the blinds. Aside from that I rarely care who's on my left. If the person(s) on your left is worth caring about you'll notice that relatively quickly.
Re A4s: I think both betting and checking the flop are +EV, I'd generally be more inclined to bet some middle PP than A4 because of the implied odds of hitting an A.
Re cxzlol: I think it's a generally really bad idea to base your plays only on immediate profitability. The reason I think that is because it's very hard to accurately say whether it's indeed immediately profitable (basically I don't think that you can ever have accurate enough stats for this). So you should always have a backup plan, and this plan should differ depending on the players you're facing (e.g. vs regs you like suited hands more, vs fish you like big cards more, etc). Definitely familiarize yourself with the math and in those rare situations where the blinds e.g. fold 90% of the time and don't adjust - use your immediate profitability ideas, but these situations are going to be the rare exceptions.
Around 17 min mark a spot where you c/r A2 as you have a gutshot. I understand your reason for this as it is at the bottom of your calling range you are raising instead. You then bet the turned Q because you say it's scary.
Although the Q is a 'scare card', is it not true that a Q is more a part of villain's range and not heroes? What hand's c/r flop and are improved to bet a turned Q for value in villain's eyes?
----
There is a spot where you 3 bet a more aggressive fish with A8s, which I assume is for value? I only recently realized this concept-but are you implying (through that hand), you are immensely widening your 3betting value range against more aggressive fish? I know this may be a generalization, but if so how wide do you know to go? Particularly against aggressive fish who tend not to fold to one barrel post flop.
Re A2: that's a good point that some players will not consider the Q scary, but in reality what happens most of the time if villain has MPNK or worse on the turn is that they look down at their hand - and they go "fuck, my hand is too weak to call and besides I have a lot of much better hands in my range anyway, so I fold". If you discover that villain actually calls the turn with MPNK then you can exploit that in two ways - one is to c/r and barrel turn very light and the second is to triple barrel as a bluff (and again if they call 3 barrels, then you readjust by barreling 3 streets very light).
Re A8: it's definitely for value. If they don't fold postflop you should valuebet more than you bluff, and that's exactly why we start by value-raising pre vs these opponents.
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Basic User
Good vid eddi.
the hand where you open 99 in hijak, co flats, sb squeezes and you fold. what hands do you continue with there? I would get it in with 99 in that situation most of the time, is this bad?
Basic User
@ 14:50 you open KJo utg and end up having to fold a cbet on KQ4 to an unknown 3bet on the flop. Just wondering--is opening KJo utg standard? Considering you had an unknown or two behind you, is this correct? My oop play is the weakest part of my play. I like jumping into a table with an aggressive dynamic out the gate in higher stakes, but start out TAG and open up my game in lower stakes games (I feel the image has a +EV edge to it at higher-stakes, whereas lower-stakes your image is almost irrelevant). You said at the start of the session you had 30 mins in. Regardless of the new guy at the table that you got involved with, what variables really base your decision on how wide you open your utg open?
Basic User
the hand where you open 99 in hijak, co flats, sb squeezes and you fold. what hands do you continue with there? I would get it in with 99 in that situation most of the time, is this bad?
I'm no Eddi, but I would think stacking with 99 there is burning $$$. Jamming with 99 would only be ahead/race his bluffs. He said that he didn't have enough information or the image for it to be likely enough for the sb to be 4bet bluffing--an advanced play. So in the event that he's 4betting for value here, you're dominated by even TT+ or racing AK/AQ. I don't have the time to run pokerstove atm, but I feel confident anyone who runs the numbers would find that even with the 10bb Eddi had committed it's -EV against his value range. Since we don't know he's capable of having a 4bet bluffing range YET you have to base your equity against only his value range. Anyone who knows the numbers better than I do: am I right here?
Basic User
sounds pretty reasonable to me.
tbh I kinda worded my post wrong, with no reads I wouldnt be 4b/caling most of the time. But I would probably call most of the time, and vs ppl who do squeeze like 5% + I just 4bet/get it in.This may still be burning money though idk.
What is your flatting and 4b'n ranges vs unknowns squeezes eddi?
Premium User
45:15 bottom left you dont think its worth it picking up the dead money on the flop?
Basic User
tbh I kinda worded my post wrong, with no reads I wouldnt be 4b/caling most of the time. But I would probably call most of the time, and vs ppl who do squeeze like 5% + I just 4bet/get it in.This may still be burning money though idk.
What is your flatting and 4b'n ranges vs unknowns squeezes eddi?
isnt calling the worst option?
i mean...there will be overs to your 99 like most of the time...
and even if not...because your are readless you re still playing a guessing game when its checked to you...so you cant really use your position...
Basic User
eddi...your word is the gospel to me so i feel the need to ask you this question. sorry for it being long...the question is in the next to last par.
ive been thinking a lot about the math behind preflop raising. not only opening but also 3 betting, 4 betting, etc. lets say that every successive raise preflop is going to be at least 3x that of the prior bet. Ex. 2/4 blinds the bets will follow according to this pattern: OPEN for $12, 3-bet for $36, 4-bet $108, etc...
So lets say you want to make a preflop bet as a bluff and your hand when called has little to no equity or its so shitty combined with aggressive villians that the little equity it has will not normally be able to make it to showdown to be realized...
If we assume that we are going to lose the pot when we are called we are risking $12 on an OPEN to win the blinds ($6). Therefore we need the blinds to fold at a greater than 2:1 ratio for this to be immediately profitable. Likewise, following this pattern a 3-bet of $36 into an opened pot totaling (12+4+2= $18) we again are risking $36 to win $18.
I know that when making a re-raise in these cases you are "matching" the prior bet and then raising on top of that so it actually works out that a 3bet of 36 will really be a raise of 24 into a new pot of (12+12+4+2= 30).
So we can either risk $36 to profit $18 (in which sb, bb, and original opener must all fold a combined total of >66% of the time to be profitable)
Or we can just Fold and lose $0 100% of the time.
So, how can you tell if this is really going to be immediately profitable? It seems to me like we cant rely on all these people folding at this high of a rate( >66% )... And it seems like this type of play actually favors a nitty players game in which he/she would only have to continue in the hand 1/3 of the time to show a profit against us.
I'm aggressive by nature and I want to be wrong about this...please tell me where I misunderstand the concepts.
Plus Team
Sorry for a late reply, I was a bit sick.
Re 99: There were two 99 hands I think - the one where I open and get squeezed with me being IP - I think getting it in preflop there is the worst option and I think if it is profitable to do that, it's going to be much more profitable to just call. In the other one where I 3bet and get cold 4bet - it's a different story and there if it is profitable to do smth besides folding it's going to be jamming. It's also a different story if you are OOP and there 4betting will usually be more attractive than calling.
Re KJo: The main factor that influences what I open UTG is who's in the blinds. Aside from that I rarely care who's on my left. If the person(s) on your left is worth caring about you'll notice that relatively quickly.
Re A4s: I think both betting and checking the flop are +EV, I'd generally be more inclined to bet some middle PP than A4 because of the implied odds of hitting an A.
Re cxzlol: I think it's a generally really bad idea to base your plays only on immediate profitability. The reason I think that is because it's very hard to accurately say whether it's indeed immediately profitable (basically I don't think that you can ever have accurate enough stats for this). So you should always have a backup plan, and this plan should differ depending on the players you're facing (e.g. vs regs you like suited hands more, vs fish you like big cards more, etc). Definitely familiarize yourself with the math and in those rare situations where the blinds e.g. fold 90% of the time and don't adjust - use your immediate profitability ideas, but these situations are going to be the rare exceptions.
Basic User
Eddi-
Around 17 min mark a spot where you c/r A2 as you have a gutshot. I understand your reason for this as it is at the bottom of your calling range you are raising instead. You then bet the turned Q because you say it's scary.
Although the Q is a 'scare card', is it not true that a Q is more a part of villain's range and not heroes? What hand's c/r flop and are improved to bet a turned Q for value in villain's eyes?
----
There is a spot where you 3 bet a more aggressive fish with A8s, which I assume is for value? I only recently realized this concept-but are you implying (through that hand), you are immensely widening your 3betting value range against more aggressive fish? I know this may be a generalization, but if so how wide do you know to go? Particularly against aggressive fish who tend not to fold to one barrel post flop.
thanks!
Plus Team
Re A2: that's a good point that some players will not consider the Q scary, but in reality what happens most of the time if villain has MPNK or worse on the turn is that they look down at their hand - and they go "fuck, my hand is too weak to call and besides I have a lot of much better hands in my range anyway, so I fold". If you discover that villain actually calls the turn with MPNK then you can exploit that in two ways - one is to c/r and barrel turn very light and the second is to triple barrel as a bluff (and again if they call 3 barrels, then you readjust by barreling 3 streets very light).
Re A8: it's definitely for value. If they don't fold postflop you should valuebet more than you bluff, and that's exactly why we start by value-raising pre vs these opponents.