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Eddi is back with 4 tables of $400 No Limit on Full Tilt. Eddi focuses on Thin value plays, hand reading, and exploiting weak regulars.
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Hi Eddi-
A common theme I noticed, is that you're usually the first to FLAT a TON of hands in position very often in this video.
Is there a specific villain type that you prefer to do this against, or is it strictly because you think fish will come along? Do you widen your calling range when the PFR villain type has a looser PFR range?
hey eddi...
on the JJ hand T97 hh flop. You c-bet and are min raised by a fishy 57 vpip player.
what is your plan in continuing in the hand if you dont spike the offsuit 8 on the turn?
i cant think of any card besides an 8 (not even a J unless it was to try to fill up on the river) that I would like to continue vs another bet from a guy that can easily have any 2 cards in his hand. is there any turn card that you donk into him? reasons for not 3 betting the flop?
what do you do vs this guy if the turn comes offsuit over card c/f?
im assuming you are checking any turn if you are checking this nut 8 turn card? but if the reason for NOT 3 betting the flop is b/c you expect to see a made hand that beats you...then wouldnt it be better to donk the turn for value vs made hands and FD's or combo draws? then you spike the 8 turn and he checks back EVERYTHING including sets, 2pr, flush draws that min raised flop purposely to to be able to check back turn to see 2 cheap cards. i mean 57 vpip...hes probably peeling the turn with worse than your 2nd nuts...right? i guess you were going for a check/raise on the turn but it just seems that any hand that he barrels turn with either chops with you / is QJ nuts / or has massive equity with FD + SD and is probably bet/calling turn with these deep stacks. but the more important thing is that sooo much of his range is hands that you want to charge to see the river.
so then if you are going to just auto check any turn like this he can min raise you like this with OESD's and FD's that want to see 2 cards for cheap by checking back the turn.
or what would you do if some offsuit brick low card comes you check and he barrels?
seems like you would probably be check/folding almost every turn here except a J or 8. seems like this fish kinda owned you with his position in this hand by checking back turn and river and not paying you anything once you got lucky.
sorry for the harshness i really like your stuff but this seems like you just clicked buttons....i just hate the turn play a good bit.
knifesrusty: I'm not sure how to answer your question as it is too general. Too many factors go into what I'll flat and why, so if you give me more specific situations I might be able to give you a better answer. The default flatting range is hands that I think cannot be 3bet for value and that I think are +EV for a call.
cxzlol: Yup, I should have donked the turn. On the flop vs the min raise I think I get plenty odds to call, not just to draw to J or 8, but also because fish raise TP like that fairly often. I'm not worried about being outplayed on later streets vs fish (i.e. I expect his actions and his bet sizing to tell me exactly what kind of a range I'm against).
how would you play JJ hand flop differently if you had QQ+ and you got min raised like this.
are you reacting to this min raise as if you are already beat? (obviously in this situation you were, but many fish might min raise TPTK to "see where they were at") then they might barrel turn really small to charge a draw...other stupid things like that. it just seems to me that 9/10 times you dont get to showdown a bare overpair on these type of boards without calling at least 1 more bet.
and it just so exploitable to turn super passive and check/call down when getting min raised with overpairs heads up on wet boards. i know this is a horrible flop for an overpair especially QQ+ but it still seems like your plan is to c/f the turn a TON! (and maybe correct to do that...i dunno) am i wrong?
i only ask about this hand so much because its a common situation and it seems that after your bet/call on the flop all you would have is a bluff catcher on the turn and if it were me i wouldnt be able to distinguish between a fish villian:
(1)valuetowning me with something like T7+ or (2)unknowingly valuetowning himself with AT or (3)just barreling basically any turn with whatever draw he has and Hero has to play the "check and try to soulread bluff catch correctly game"
knifesrusty: I'm not sure how to answer your question as it is too general. Too many factors go into what I'll flat and why, so if you give me more specific situations I might be able to give you a better answer. The default flatting range is hands that I think cannot be 3bet for value and that I think are +EV for a call.
against a villain who barrels too much, but folds to too many 3 bets, so I cannot raise hands like 99/TT, KQs,AJo etc. for value without history.
is there a range you feel comfortable playing considering he will 2 barrel often?. I 'think' I need to be flatting bigger hands to keep him in the pot, but I did see you flat with hands like J9s, 86s. Are these ranges what you prefer against a barrel happy player, or against a cbet once give up player. or is there some more notes you need to do this.
cxzlol:
Your post already has all the necessary information. You correctly observed that often you can tell what the fish have by their bet sizing - that should help you be more confident on various turns.
Just keep in mind that fish are generally passive and that should make reading the situation a whole lot easier, so that should be your default assumption vs fish and I don't think there is much else you can do on the flop with JJ and probably QQ. Somewhere around KK and AA it can become better to 3bet the flop especially if the fish is passive PF as well.
knifesrusty: I'm not sure how to answer your question as it is too general. Too many factors go into what I'll flat and why, so if you give me more specific situations I might be able to give you a better answer. The default flatting range is hands that I think cannot be 3bet for value and that I think are +EV for a call.
against a villain who barrels too much, but folds to too many 3 bets, so I cannot raise hands like 99/TT, KQs,AJo etc. for value without history.
is there a range you feel comfortable playing considering he will 2 barrel often?. I 'think' I need to be flatting bigger hands to keep him in the pot, but I did see you flat with hands like J9s, 86s. Are these ranges what you prefer against a barrel happy player, or against a cbet once give up player. or is there some more notes you need to do this.
Thanks eddi
It's hard to quantify these things. I generally think that playing
J9s or 86s is going to be +EV for me IP, but this doesn't mean that
they are always +EV. One simple example of when it can stop being +EV is when there is a squeezer or two behind that have a well balanced but wide range.
If you don't think that J9s is profitable for you to call - then don't, either fold or since it's probably the top of your folding range it's not such a bad idea to 3bet it. As you learn more and play more you'll get better and you'll find that your ranges will change as a result of you being able to play more hands profitably.
about 15mins in you talk about donking turn. I NEVER donk when I dont have the initiative. Is this a leak? Do you ever donk in situations like that as a bluff?
about 15mins in you talk about donking turn. I NEVER donk when I dont have the initiative. Is this a leak? Do you ever donk in situations like that as a bluff?
In theory I would say not having a donking range is a leak (as is not having a range for making any play in any situation), but for me it's something I don't do very often, and certainly not with a balanced range
about 15mins in you talk about donking turn. I NEVER donk when I dont have the initiative. Is this a leak? Do you ever donk in situations like that as a bluff?
It's rarely necessary to donk as a bluff, more often than not c/r'ing is going to play out better. That said donking for value can often be really good (and instead of bluffing you have to balance by how thinly you donk).
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Basic User
Where is the link to down load this? Thanks
Basic User
Hi Eddi-
A common theme I noticed, is that you're usually the first to FLAT a TON of hands in position very often in this video.
Is there a specific villain type that you prefer to do this against, or is it strictly because you think fish will come along? Do you widen your calling range when the PFR villain type has a looser PFR range?
love ALL your vids they help out a lot
Basic User
hey eddi...
on the JJ hand T97 hh flop. You c-bet and are min raised by a fishy 57 vpip player.
what is your plan in continuing in the hand if you dont spike the offsuit 8 on the turn?
i cant think of any card besides an 8 (not even a J unless it was to try to fill up on the river) that I would like to continue vs another bet from a guy that can easily have any 2 cards in his hand. is there any turn card that you donk into him? reasons for not 3 betting the flop?
what do you do vs this guy if the turn comes offsuit over card c/f?
im assuming you are checking any turn if you are checking this nut 8 turn card? but if the reason for NOT 3 betting the flop is b/c you expect to see a made hand that beats you...then wouldnt it be better to donk the turn for value vs made hands and FD's or combo draws? then you spike the 8 turn and he checks back EVERYTHING including sets, 2pr, flush draws that min raised flop purposely to to be able to check back turn to see 2 cheap cards. i mean 57 vpip...hes probably peeling the turn with worse than your 2nd nuts...right? i guess you were going for a check/raise on the turn but it just seems that any hand that he barrels turn with either chops with you / is QJ nuts / or has massive equity with FD + SD and is probably bet/calling turn with these deep stacks. but the more important thing is that sooo much of his range is hands that you want to charge to see the river.
so then if you are going to just auto check any turn like this he can min raise you like this with OESD's and FD's that want to see 2 cards for cheap by checking back the turn.
or what would you do if some offsuit brick low card comes you check and he barrels?
seems like you would probably be check/folding almost every turn here except a J or 8. seems like this fish kinda owned you with his position in this hand by checking back turn and river and not paying you anything once you got lucky.
sorry for the harshness i really like your stuff but this seems like you just clicked buttons....i just hate the turn play a good bit.
Basic User
opps...i guess we think alike i immediately paused and posted before you said "good idea to donk the turn"
Plus Team
knifesrusty: I'm not sure how to answer your question as it is too general. Too many factors go into what I'll flat and why, so if you give me more specific situations I might be able to give you a better answer. The default flatting range is hands that I think cannot be 3bet for value and that I think are +EV for a call.
cxzlol: Yup, I should have donked the turn. On the flop vs the min raise I think I get plenty odds to call, not just to draw to J or 8, but also because fish raise TP like that fairly often. I'm not worried about being outplayed on later streets vs fish (i.e. I expect his actions and his bet sizing to tell me exactly what kind of a range I'm against).
Basic User
how would you play JJ hand flop differently if you had QQ+ and you got min raised like this.
are you reacting to this min raise as if you are already beat? (obviously in this situation you were, but many fish might min raise TPTK to "see where they were at") then they might barrel turn really small to charge a draw...other stupid things like that. it just seems to me that 9/10 times you dont get to showdown a bare overpair on these type of boards without calling at least 1 more bet.
and it just so exploitable to turn super passive and check/call down when getting min raised with overpairs heads up on wet boards. i know this is a horrible flop for an overpair especially QQ+ but it still seems like your plan is to c/f the turn a TON! (and maybe correct to do that...i dunno) am i wrong?
i only ask about this hand so much because its a common situation and it seems that after your bet/call on the flop all you would have is a bluff catcher on the turn and if it were me i wouldnt be able to distinguish between a fish villian:
(1)valuetowning me with something like T7+ or (2)unknowingly valuetowning himself with AT or (3)just barreling basically any turn with whatever draw he has and Hero has to play the "check and try to soulread bluff catch correctly game"
thanks eddi
Plus Team
Added thx for pointing that out!
Basic User
knifesrusty: I'm not sure how to answer your question as it is too general. Too many factors go into what I'll flat and why, so if you give me more specific situations I might be able to give you a better answer. The default flatting range is hands that I think cannot be 3bet for value and that I think are +EV for a call.
against a villain who barrels too much, but folds to too many 3 bets, so I cannot raise hands like 99/TT, KQs,AJo etc. for value without history.
is there a range you feel comfortable playing considering he will 2 barrel often?. I 'think' I need to be flatting bigger hands to keep him in the pot, but I did see you flat with hands like J9s, 86s. Are these ranges what you prefer against a barrel happy player, or against a cbet once give up player. or is there some more notes you need to do this.
Thanks eddi
Plus Team
cxzlol:
Your post already has all the necessary information. You correctly observed that often you can tell what the fish have by their bet sizing - that should help you be more confident on various turns.
Just keep in mind that fish are generally passive and that should make reading the situation a whole lot easier, so that should be your default assumption vs fish and I don't think there is much else you can do on the flop with JJ and probably QQ. Somewhere around KK and AA it can become better to 3bet the flop especially if the fish is passive PF as well.
Plus Team
knifesrusty: I'm not sure how to answer your question as it is too general. Too many factors go into what I'll flat and why, so if you give me more specific situations I might be able to give you a better answer. The default flatting range is hands that I think cannot be 3bet for value and that I think are +EV for a call.
against a villain who barrels too much, but folds to too many 3 bets, so I cannot raise hands like 99/TT, KQs,AJo etc. for value without history.
is there a range you feel comfortable playing considering he will 2 barrel often?. I 'think' I need to be flatting bigger hands to keep him in the pot, but I did see you flat with hands like J9s, 86s. Are these ranges what you prefer against a barrel happy player, or against a cbet once give up player. or is there some more notes you need to do this.
Thanks eddi
It's hard to quantify these things. I generally think that playing
J9s or 86s is going to be +EV for me IP, but this doesn't mean that
they are always +EV. One simple example of when it can stop being +EV is when there is a squeezer or two behind that have a well balanced but wide range.
If you don't think that J9s is profitable for you to call - then don't, either fold or since it's probably the top of your folding range it's not such a bad idea to 3bet it. As you learn more and play more you'll get better and you'll find that your ranges will change as a result of you being able to play more hands profitably.
Premium User
about 15mins in you talk about donking turn. I NEVER donk when I dont have the initiative. Is this a leak? Do you ever donk in situations like that as a bluff?
Plus Team
In theory I would say not having a donking range is a leak (as is not having a range for making any play in any situation), but for me it's something I don't do very often, and certainly not with a balanced range
Plus Team
It's rarely necessary to donk as a bluff, more often than not c/r'ing is going to play out better. That said donking for value can often be really good (and instead of bluffing you have to balance by how thinly you donk).